"Policing culture" doesn't work
I write a lot about IndyHall on this blog, but I don’t think I’ve spoken at any great length about another local organization, Philly Startup Leaders. I’ve recently joined the organization as part of a newly formed advisory board, along with a number of other people from various local organizations that support and contribute to the local scene, as well as others who have been long-time fixtures and observe Philadelphias growth from another vantage point.
Philly Startup Leaders, like IndyHall, has modest beginnings: started by a couple of people who had or were involved with startups to discuss the challenges of being a startup in Philadelphia. Those early meetings, all held over beers as far as I’m aware, have transformed into a strong mission for the Philadelphia startup community:
“…above all else, startup entrepreneurs need each other.”
So what’s been fascinating to me has been watching IndyHall and PSL, two different communities grow alongside each other with similar purpose and vision. Lots of crossover has taken place. We share a number of members. Some of us have worked together. All good, healthy things for the ecosystem.
The PSL board has done a great job of growing membership, creating and evolving new events for the membership to participate in, crafting a manifesto, and providing the primary venue for community: the PSL-Talk e-mail list.
That e-mail list, a phenomenal resource for the community, seems to also be one of it’s greatest weaknesses.
There’s currently a flare-up (well, it’s currently as public as the e-mail list is…another issue…and it’s persistent in back-channels) about “self promotion and sales” in the list. When a new thread author, or an existing thread responder, posts something that is less about contributing information to the community and instead, advertises themselves as the solution to a specific problem, they receive a slap on the wrist (public or private, at the board’s discretion). The response is usually something like this one, from PSL co-founder and president Blake Jennelle:
Steve, you could have sent this solicitation to Yasmine directly. Promoting your consulting services is not appropriate over PSL talk. This is your public warning as per the policy you see in the footer. If this happens again you will be removed from the list.
The policy in the footer that Blake refers to reads:
The PSL Talk List is /not a sales channel/. If you use the PSL Talk List to make a sales pitch to the community, you will be warned, publicly. If you do it again, you will be removed from the list.
I want to be clear and say that I understand why this rule is in place. Lists that are primarily solicitation, job postings, and the like do a lot of harm to the balance of “has” and “needs” of a community.
I liken it to the situation that IndyHall has with recruiters and job-postings. We wanted to make IndyHall a place and a community where people can be more effective at getting their work done. If the ecosystem becomes a place where people can come to get work, vs a place where people come to do work, the has/needs balance gets out of whack.
This is a tricky situation to deal with, for a couple of reasons. First and formost, the LAST thing I want is to be the person, or organization, that gets between a person and the opportunity of their lifetime.
When there’s contact from recruiters, startups, companies, etc about the talent at IndyHall and their availability, we explain that we’re an organization that provides physical space and community resources to our membership, as well as a highly collaborative environment that they can use to get their work done. Work exchanges hands all the time, but we don’t get in the middle of it. If you [recruiter/startup/company/etc] is interested in coming to IndyHall as a member, to use the space and community resources in the same way as anyone else who walks in our door, we welcome you!
So rather than police their intentions, which are to find a candidate for the job they have open, we frame it appropriately. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from walking in the door and joining IndyHall. So long as you can work from anywhere, pay your membership, come on by.
What’s nice is…because the culture is established by the existing membership, most anti-culture behavior sorts itself out. Rather than police culture, which is a very top-down way of looking at things, we carefully frame the situation.
If that person, whoever they are, feels they aren’t getting what they came there for, odds are, they came for the wrong thing. And most importantly, they won’t come back.
So, I came down on Blake’s response in the e-mail list where he slapped the so-called service provider on the wrist for an infraction that I’ll keep referring to as “anti-culture behavior”.
Someone who specializes in the topic of a question responds, and it’s sales. Someone who’s novice (or less experienced) responds, and it’s a-OK. Does anybody else see the problem here? I think there’s a difference between letting the group know what you do (within the list, which is the only unified point of membership of PSL) and overtly selling it to the group. What happens when someone asks about office space, and someone other than me recommends IndyHall? What if that person is a member of IndyHall? Is it better if they aren’t a member of IndyHall? It’s not me selling, but they’re selling for us (without my direct influence). What happens when somebody asks for help, like in this case? Experts aren’t allowed to be responded to in public discourse? What does that accomplish? I know that a LOT of energy goes into keeping this list anti-sales, and don’t think that I don’t understand why. Maybe if that energy went into focusing on what this list is, instead of what it’s not, the message would be clearer to people joining PSL. I don’t think the barrier to entry is to high or too low, I just think that you’ve put up the wrong barrier.
I admittedly painted some broad strokes, for the sake of illustration. But I made my point, and framed in the context of this post, I think it makes even more sense.
So Blake responds:
All Steve had to do was answer Yasmine’s question over the list and let his expertise speak for itself. This would have been a much more effective sales pitch. Alex, when you share your expertise on workspaces, when Wil shares his expertise on SEO, when Aaron shares his expertise on marketing, that unquestionable adds value to the list. It’s when you send a solicitation, beyond giving freely of your expertise, that people get annoyed. PSL talk is about helping each other for the sake of helping each other. That’s the culture that draws so many people to this community, as to Indy Hall. That’s the culture that we care so much about protecting and nurturing. That’s what PSL IS about.
Which, again, I completely agree with. Except this part:
That’s the culture that we care so much about protecting and nurturing.
I think it jumped out at me because I said something very similar in an unrelated conversation with Sean Blanda, co-founder of TechnicallyPhilly just yesterday.
Blake and the PSL board have always taken the approach of policing, posting signage (the footer warning), and warning/banning offenders.
What concerns me about this approach is that I don’t know if you can protect and nurture culture at the same time. By protecting it, you’re not letting it build up its own cultural defenses, which would truly be nurturing it into maturity.
My most recent post to the list encouraged Blake in two directions: first, to take some of the board-only-back-channel-discussion into a public forum, and make the most of the smart problem solvers he has as peers in his community. Second, to focus on what PSL is and stands for, instead of trying to keep out everything that it isn’t. Since, Blake has started a new thread doing just that, in which I’ll be sharing this post, as well as participating in the group discussion as much as is appropriate.
I don’t have the exact solution for PSL. I’m not a genie. And believe me, I’m far from perfect.
But I do know that policing culture is historically ineffective (culture’s going to go where it wants) and if the PSL board and the community it represents put more energy into nurturing than protecting, the solution would likely begin to materialize as a much clearer, and more sustainable approach to the problem.
Let me make sure I understand. Per the list rules, a list member posts, “I would like to know this, that and the other about xyz. How should I …?” A provider of services in that field answers, “You could do a, b, and c. I would avoid d and there is a lot of controversy about e.” That is good and is helping the community.
But if the provider said (over the list), “Say, my company is expert in that area and we solve problems like this all the time. Call me and we can help you”, that would not be ok and would get dinged.
You do not think that the list leaders should ding the provider who answered the second way, because a)such dinging does not build the community and may even harm it and b) any such dinging should come from the members who might post, “Hey, keep your crummy ads off our list.”
Does that sum it up correctly?
Alex, you’re adding a tremendous amount of value to this discussion, thanks as always for your help.
I’m still thinking through the questions you raise, and forgive me for sharing thoughts that are not yet fully formed.
It seems to me that nurturing and protecting culture are two sides of the same coin, and that you can’t have one without the other.
Philly Startup Leaders and Indy Hall nurture our cultures in many ways, among them: * By members leading by example * By discussing values and putting them in writing * By supporting people, events, initiatives, and organizations that are consistent with our values * By organizing our membership and our leadership in ways that reflect our values
This is just a start. I’m sure you can add many more.
Likewise, we protect our cultures by, among other things: * Withholding support from things that are inconsistent with our culture (consider the partnerships, events, and solicitations that we each have declined) * Calling out behaviors inconsistent with our values (usually privately but sometimes publicly) * Being called out for those behaviors.
To your point about policing, does Philly Startup Leaders need formal sanctions, or the threat of removing people from the listserv, in order to protect culture?
It’s quite possible that we don’t. Families need sanctions, governments need sanctions, and even Wikipedia needs sanctions, but PSL (and IndyHall) are different from each of these.
It could be enough to simply point out anti-culture behavior and educate people as to why it’s harmful to the community.
My current thinking is that we should focus on this approach within PSL. Rather than starting with policing, as we have, we should avoid policing unless we find that despite our best and most creative efforts, there’s no way to avoid it.
We are far from the point where we’ve exhausted alternatives to policing, and you’re totally right to call us out for it.
I appreciate and respect you for it, Alex.
Reed: as for the current policy and enforcement, you’re spot on.
I’m not saying that people shouldn’t get dinged. I’m saying that the problem is being addressed reactively, and too late. And aggressively, as others have pointed out on the list.
Instead, I’m interested in putting the energy currently placed on “dinging” offenders into nurturing the culture to a point where it’s mature enough, and strong enough, enough so that the offense doesn’t get a chance to happen in the first place.
That sounds like a great place to start. Better yet, giving community members the tools (consistent messaging, for example) to do so on their own behalf rather, when they feel it’s appropriate.
Yasmine, as OP, pointed out that she did not find the message to be “solicitorious” (my made up word, not hers).
The unfortunate dynamic of an e-mail list is that everyone gets all of the posts and the replies. She got what she wanted, but too much room was left for someone else (you, or anybody on the list) to cry foul.
It seems what’s happening here is Blake is just being an A-hole, on a power trip, and abusing his authority — and Alex is trying to find a really nice way of telling him so.
I mean, come on, “if you do this again you will be removed from the list.” That’s not policing the list — that’s Gestapo tactics. It’s one thing if the guy was posting spam. But for saying I can help you, threatening to get banned?
I don’t know why anyone would want to be part of a list with someone like that in charge. The guys got some serious issues.
@John D, if there is one thing I know about Blake, he is not an “A-hole”. I have worked closely with Blake and the rest of the Board of PSL over a period of 8 months. Blake, on behalf of all of the PSL founders, asked me and several others to participate in a process to plan the “Future of PSL”. There were a lot of long discussions and disagreement on where the group should go.
You know what happened? At the end of that 8 months, the PSL Manifesto emerged, read this and you’ll see what PSL is about. PSL decided it should be here to enable its members. It’s about as open and encouraging as you can get.
Has PSL made a mistake in the way it has handled the list, I would say yes, but don’t blame it on Blake. Blake simply represents the group as the President, and the group decided to do this because they’re very concerned that PSL wants to keep the list clean so that every thread is useful to its membership.
Anyway, I think if you look at Blake’s responses, on behalf of the PSL Board mind you, that good will come of this.
By the way, if you’re going to criticize someone who you’ve likely never met, I think you should at least show your last name.
This very thing happened to my brother on the PSL list – a question was asked, and he offered a marketing book his company had created for internal use to the members of the list, and was slapped down. When he apologized (for what, I’m not exactly sure) for perhaps treading in the wrong direction on the boards and explaining he was a bit of a n00b to the boards, he received the same slap-on-the-wrist email, verbatim. It almost appeared to be a form-email sent out by a bot, not by a human.
Many people on the list came to his defense, acknowledging that he wasn’t trying to sell or promote his services, but offer a free resource in response to a call for such resources – still, it made me curious if there wasn’t a bot listening for certain keywords and just issuing warning emails at nauseam.
All that said, I do agree – it’s a hard balance. If you let the boards run free, spammers will inevitably take over. If you over-police, or answer posts that are in context to the conversation with warnings, then it’s over-policing, and perhaps conversation-stifling. I’m glad I’m not the person that has to make such decisions – you’re never going to land on everyone’s good side.
Dave, I saw that. I’m not sure, but what I think actually happened is your brother got confused by the footer that the listserv adds and thought it was response. This is why I think the footer needs to be removed or changed. I’m almost certain there isn’t a bot.
Alex, thank you for taking the time to write this up and pushing the issues to the forefront. I’m going to weigh-in on this after I’ve processed the enormous amount of feedback.
Dave M, your brother confused the message footer attached to every email (policy statement Alex quoted above) with an automatic response. He mailed two messages to the list, and when the emails were delivered back to him, they contained the footer. Nobody sent him a message saying it was inappropriate, unless somebody else wrote a bot and I’m unaware of it
I’m sorry for the misunderstanding.
Hey guys – thanks for clearing that up for me! I know my brother was excited to start participating in PSL. You guys rule!
At the beginning of my email, I started with a pitch of my company to set the context of the email. Should I have been warned as well?
It’s difficult to discern where and when the line is crossed. It seems to depend on the “violator.”
Nevertheless, I’m surprised at how the community has rallied on this topic and I can’t wait to see the outcome. I appreciate the hard task the Board has in listening to the responses and working through the issues.
@John D – The email footer policy was discussed and decided upon by the PSL Board and Management Team. If you’re going to call anyone an A-hole, you can call us all A-holes. Your comment of “with someone like that in charge,” is completely ignorant. PSL is guided by the principles and desires of our members, our community, our ecosystem, our Advisory Board and Board of Directors.
… and I am happy to share my thoughts, publicly, with my full name attached.
Aaron McLean Co-founder, Marketing & PR Director, Board Member Philly Startup Leaders
To Alex, Blake, Jameson, Yasmine and everyone else that is contributing to the conversation and adding valuable insights – I wanted to say that I really appreciate your thoughts, as I know many others do. It is the solid guidance and feedback of active and valuable members of the community, such as yourselves, that will help to shape the future success of PSL and organizations, such as ours.
It is encouraging to see so much enthusiasm shared here. It goes to show us how valuable PSL’s resources are to its members and how much those members, and the community, really care.
I have one quick comment to add:
“Policing,” (which is a terrible term, really) the PSL talk list was never our intention. We have had many discussions regarding our policies – and even more so, when we should have policies and when we should not.
This may very well be one of those instances where instead of a policy, we employ active encouragement. Encourage the culture you want – a culture that is beneficial to an organization’s members (and the community), and the community will respond by embracing the culture, sharing, nurturing and spreading it.
PSL’s genuine desire to empower the startup ecosystem through community collaboration is one of the things that drew me so close to it and one of the things I admire so much about it, and its members. I could not be more grateful to have the opportunity to share something so powerful, unique and innovative with my friends, colleagues and fellow community members.
Kudos back to all who help make PSL so valuable.
Warmest regards,
Aaron